“Whether my American compatriots ultimately include me in their fold—in a larger civilizational sense—is up to them” .
True. The idea of getting pushed out of a culture and community we were raised in is scary for us of Indian origin, but ultimately, it’s not our decision to make. We are not the custodians of American culture and identity (Vivek fails to realize). If we do get deported to India or stay in America, we ought to make the most of it with dignity and respect.
What great writing. I related to this very much, it encapsulates how I feel about affluent female jews, being an affluent female jew. Enthusiastically subscribing now. I'm glad you and Walt found eachother.
Love the jizz ju jitsu story. Reminds me of my high school frenemy mocking me for being rich. I was, and he was poor. One day, he showed up to class with his hand wrapped in a large bandage. I asked if he injured it working in the textile mill, and we’re still friends today.
1. Large historical nation that one can integrate into.
2. Largely empty piece of land with great economic opportunities and a young nation still going through its ethnogenesis.
Your sympathies are with the former view, clearly. The latter irks a lot of “Americans”.
But if the eventual fate of America is to become a billion person country then why shouldn’t half of those remaining citizens be of Indian origin (as well as majority of the rest of the Anglo new world).
Of course, this kind of thinking quickly raises accusations of reverse colonization, ethnocentrism etc etc
Disgust responses are activated by invoking an image of a billion people shitting in the streets and what not.
Anglo exceptionalism is invoked.
(As if the founding fathers were not ethno-centric)
One needs to maintain sangfroid through all this. The global Indian is neither the enemy of the Anglo nor is he a replacement.
He is an augmentation. And in a way an inheritor of the Anglo patrimony as an adopted child. Probably as much as its estranged American progeny.
And certainly more than the lesser whiter races who use “assimilation” as a bugaboo to reduce competition for themselves.
My comment was more general and directed at young ethnic Indians (of various nationalities) passing through your article who lately find themselves besieged with what can often be described as blood libel.
wrt Vivek — I agree and disagree with you on different aspects but I don’t find him interesting enough a character to litigate too much. I do think he’s earnest in his attempt to synthesize Anglo and Indian sides of his culture, whatever be his other faults.
wrt the evolving American identity — all I have to say is this — American culture and society are extremely capricious.
I have seen at least four major moral panics in quick sucession — Islam, Inequality (Occupy etc), Intersectionality, and now Indians. With a bunch of minor moral panics that no one even cares about any more, remember climate change?
Now capriciousness could be a great thing in certain circumstances (too long to elaborate here why).
But it also means one goes from “the immigrant” being the most celebrated segment of society to the most derided one in less than a decade.
One can imagine similar flip flops in the future.
What this means is that the valence one puts on either the Anglo or Indian side of one’s identity will have remarkably different reactions just a short time apart.
So my only request to you and to other Indians would be to not drink the Kool Aid of the current thing. It was cool to be wistful about your homeland a la Jhumpa Lahiri a decade ago. Encouraged and celebrated even. It was a bit cringe.
Today it will probably get you a heap of abuse and accusations of treachery.
Similarly, one shouldn’t start supporting deportations and immigration moratorium just to please the set of people with the loudest voice in the room. It is more than a bit cringe.
This too shall pass.
Of course, if you’ve come to this conclusion independently of your own accord then I might disagree but will not question your motives.
I think most people who interact with me on a day-to-day basis (in these matters) will attest to my general sangfroid. If you don't believe me, I can direct you to individuals who would be happy to provide a testimonial.
Here, I am calling out a particular individual with a tone of justified rage. This individual is a viper who makes it far less likely that:
1. Any reasonable arrangement will be found to accommodate vested parties across cultural-political lines, who are litigating the many fraught circumstances impacting the preservation of a cohesive American identity, even through substantial evolution.
2. Real justice can be served to those harmed, on any side, by the intensifying civil conflicts over the broad category of issues intersecting at the topic of '21st Century Indian immigration to the U.S.A.'
I think I've done an excellent job here, neither being subservient to those who would oppress me, nor domineering to those whom I would otherwise threaten.
I plan to live a dignified, responsible, artful life. That will serve as a demonstrated augmentation of both my Anglo-Saxon patrimony and my South Indian origin. I strongly disagree that Vivek is doing something similar.
Vivek, Mr Striver Extraordinaire, forget his middle school algebra in his false dichotomy of American being either a binary or a gradient:
It’s a function with an X intercept - degrees of American with sufficient X heritage, not American below that. Vivek is below. Whether it is optimal for Americans for certain Indians to be here is another matter. You, absolutely. Vivek, absolutely not.
Hadn’t heard the expression « TamBrahm » until now, so thanks for the enlightenment.
Aside: I doubt whether more than 1% of Americans are even remotely interested in the idiosyncrasies of intra-Indian ethnic- , religious- and caste-based relations, so that angle is not likely to resonate well…
So rather than heave insults at Vivek for his at times cringeworthy efforts to be {all things to all American conservatives} while simultaneously being a 2nd Generation American of So. Indian descent and a Hindu, too… perhaps you’d do better to challenge him on some substantive political issues which actually matter to rationally-thinking Americans… just sayin’.
That way you might even reach a greater readership (among other than sarcasm addicts) than does Vivek’s approach to Boomer Grandmas in Indiana with iPhone 8s.
His constant validation seeking behavior is disgusting to all self-respecting Indian Americans. He never got over his parent's conditional love and seeks approval from everyone that he is worthy. At a certain point he needs to ask himself what is he chasing and why.
I will direct you back to two sentences in the essay that you seemed to have glossed over.
> I have no interest in a formal political career, nor one as a “public intellectual,” as many of my friends and family can vouch.
> I do not expect that this essay will ever reach you, and if I’m wrong about that, I have even less faith that you’ll meaningfully internalize anything being said.
Extremely good article.
is this apoc or something
“Whether my American compatriots ultimately include me in their fold—in a larger civilizational sense—is up to them” .
True. The idea of getting pushed out of a culture and community we were raised in is scary for us of Indian origin, but ultimately, it’s not our decision to make. We are not the custodians of American culture and identity (Vivek fails to realize). If we do get deported to India or stay in America, we ought to make the most of it with dignity and respect.
What great writing. I related to this very much, it encapsulates how I feel about affluent female jews, being an affluent female jew. Enthusiastically subscribing now. I'm glad you and Walt found eachother.
Thanks for the kind words! Your appreciation is appreciated ❤️
Love the jizz ju jitsu story. Reminds me of my high school frenemy mocking me for being rich. I was, and he was poor. One day, he showed up to class with his hand wrapped in a large bandage. I asked if he injured it working in the textile mill, and we’re still friends today.
Well said, sir. Mr. Ram now ranks second after Indian Bronson in my personal pantheon of patriotic Indian Americans.
Couple of ways to look at America:
1. Large historical nation that one can integrate into.
2. Largely empty piece of land with great economic opportunities and a young nation still going through its ethnogenesis.
Your sympathies are with the former view, clearly. The latter irks a lot of “Americans”.
But if the eventual fate of America is to become a billion person country then why shouldn’t half of those remaining citizens be of Indian origin (as well as majority of the rest of the Anglo new world).
Of course, this kind of thinking quickly raises accusations of reverse colonization, ethnocentrism etc etc
Disgust responses are activated by invoking an image of a billion people shitting in the streets and what not.
Anglo exceptionalism is invoked.
(As if the founding fathers were not ethno-centric)
One needs to maintain sangfroid through all this. The global Indian is neither the enemy of the Anglo nor is he a replacement.
He is an augmentation. And in a way an inheritor of the Anglo patrimony as an adopted child. Probably as much as its estranged American progeny.
And certainly more than the lesser whiter races who use “assimilation” as a bugaboo to reduce competition for themselves.
My comment was more general and directed at young ethnic Indians (of various nationalities) passing through your article who lately find themselves besieged with what can often be described as blood libel.
wrt Vivek — I agree and disagree with you on different aspects but I don’t find him interesting enough a character to litigate too much. I do think he’s earnest in his attempt to synthesize Anglo and Indian sides of his culture, whatever be his other faults.
wrt the evolving American identity — all I have to say is this — American culture and society are extremely capricious.
I have seen at least four major moral panics in quick sucession — Islam, Inequality (Occupy etc), Intersectionality, and now Indians. With a bunch of minor moral panics that no one even cares about any more, remember climate change?
Now capriciousness could be a great thing in certain circumstances (too long to elaborate here why).
But it also means one goes from “the immigrant” being the most celebrated segment of society to the most derided one in less than a decade.
One can imagine similar flip flops in the future.
What this means is that the valence one puts on either the Anglo or Indian side of one’s identity will have remarkably different reactions just a short time apart.
So my only request to you and to other Indians would be to not drink the Kool Aid of the current thing. It was cool to be wistful about your homeland a la Jhumpa Lahiri a decade ago. Encouraged and celebrated even. It was a bit cringe.
Today it will probably get you a heap of abuse and accusations of treachery.
Similarly, one shouldn’t start supporting deportations and immigration moratorium just to please the set of people with the loudest voice in the room. It is more than a bit cringe.
This too shall pass.
Of course, if you’ve come to this conclusion independently of your own accord then I might disagree but will not question your motives.
I think most people who interact with me on a day-to-day basis (in these matters) will attest to my general sangfroid. If you don't believe me, I can direct you to individuals who would be happy to provide a testimonial.
Here, I am calling out a particular individual with a tone of justified rage. This individual is a viper who makes it far less likely that:
1. Any reasonable arrangement will be found to accommodate vested parties across cultural-political lines, who are litigating the many fraught circumstances impacting the preservation of a cohesive American identity, even through substantial evolution.
2. Real justice can be served to those harmed, on any side, by the intensifying civil conflicts over the broad category of issues intersecting at the topic of '21st Century Indian immigration to the U.S.A.'
I think I've done an excellent job here, neither being subservient to those who would oppress me, nor domineering to those whom I would otherwise threaten.
I plan to live a dignified, responsible, artful life. That will serve as a demonstrated augmentation of both my Anglo-Saxon patrimony and my South Indian origin. I strongly disagree that Vivek is doing something similar.
Vivek, Mr Striver Extraordinaire, forget his middle school algebra in his false dichotomy of American being either a binary or a gradient:
It’s a function with an X intercept - degrees of American with sufficient X heritage, not American below that. Vivek is below. Whether it is optimal for Americans for certain Indians to be here is another matter. You, absolutely. Vivek, absolutely not.
that steak looks pretty good
Maybe Brahmins arent so bad after all. Nice essay
🕉️ 🙏🏾
I will still have proletariat affinities with Shudras and Muslims
There are some super funny lines in here
One must become a jester to deliver the most vicious contempt. Thanks for reading 🙂
Well said!
Nobody likes them & they’re all the same.
[Here through Peter Banks’ recommendation].
Hadn’t heard the expression « TamBrahm » until now, so thanks for the enlightenment.
Aside: I doubt whether more than 1% of Americans are even remotely interested in the idiosyncrasies of intra-Indian ethnic- , religious- and caste-based relations, so that angle is not likely to resonate well…
So rather than heave insults at Vivek for his at times cringeworthy efforts to be {all things to all American conservatives} while simultaneously being a 2nd Generation American of So. Indian descent and a Hindu, too… perhaps you’d do better to challenge him on some substantive political issues which actually matter to rationally-thinking Americans… just sayin’.
That way you might even reach a greater readership (among other than sarcasm addicts) than does Vivek’s approach to Boomer Grandmas in Indiana with iPhone 8s.
Nobody is mad at Vivek for his "policy positions".
Fair enough.
So what’s your “beef” with Vivek?
Or what’s your “curd” with the fellow?
His constant validation seeking behavior is disgusting to all self-respecting Indian Americans. He never got over his parent's conditional love and seeks approval from everyone that he is worthy. At a certain point he needs to ask himself what is he chasing and why.
Shit, maybe I'm talking about myself lol.
He is a bad person, and he has terrible political instincts.
O-kay…
Could Vivek improve?
Or would you like to give it a shot?
I will direct you back to two sentences in the essay that you seemed to have glossed over.
> I have no interest in a formal political career, nor one as a “public intellectual,” as many of my friends and family can vouch.
> I do not expect that this essay will ever reach you, and if I’m wrong about that, I have even less faith that you’ll meaningfully internalize anything being said.